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	<title>Comments on: Getting More Women on the Bike</title>
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	<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/</link>
	<description>The national blog network for sustainable transport, smart growth and livable streets.</description>
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		<title>By: herbie huff</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2911</link>
		<dc:creator>herbie huff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 23:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2911</guid>
		<description>I get what you&#039;re saying, Stacey.

But the better survey design would have simply asked these questions in a gender neutral way. If there were gender gaps in the answers, then we can talk about changing things to target those gaps. I don&#039;t really see how we move ourselves toward getting more women on the bike with this survey, because we have no idea how these results compare to what a mixed-gender survey would have shown. 

Jonathan (#15) already basically said this.

I was one of the core volunteers on LACBC&#039;s Bike Count, and we saw gender gaps in our data, big time. In particular, we counted higher percentages of women riding on bicycle paths and lanes compared to routes and streets with no bike infrastructure. We also saw lower percentages of women during the evening rush hour. The idea that women are an indicator species for cyclists is borne out by our data, because the intersections with the highest counts also tended to have higher percentages of women. One exception to this is that few women rode at night, but we counted the most cyclists during the night count. So we can see a gendered pattern there.

I mention all that to say that I agree that the low rates of women cycling is cause for campaigns and changes. I just think this particular piece of this particular campaign wasn&#039;t carefully thought through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get what you&#8217;re saying, Stacey.</p>
<p>But the better survey design would have simply asked these questions in a gender neutral way. If there were gender gaps in the answers, then we can talk about changing things to target those gaps. I don&#8217;t really see how we move ourselves toward getting more women on the bike with this survey, because we have no idea how these results compare to what a mixed-gender survey would have shown. </p>
<p>Jonathan (#15) already basically said this.</p>
<p>I was one of the core volunteers on LACBC&#8217;s Bike Count, and we saw gender gaps in our data, big time. In particular, we counted higher percentages of women riding on bicycle paths and lanes compared to routes and streets with no bike infrastructure. We also saw lower percentages of women during the evening rush hour. The idea that women are an indicator species for cyclists is borne out by our data, because the intersections with the highest counts also tended to have higher percentages of women. One exception to this is that few women rode at night, but we counted the most cyclists during the night count. So we can see a gendered pattern there.</p>
<p>I mention all that to say that I agree that the low rates of women cycling is cause for campaigns and changes. I just think this particular piece of this particular campaign wasn&#8217;t carefully thought through.</p>
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		<title>By: stacey2545</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2907</link>
		<dc:creator>stacey2545</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2907</guid>
		<description>@ Herbie Huff: I would agree with you, except that I&#039;ve met women like that. The women who won&#039;t go to the grocery store without taking a half hour to do their makeup &amp; hair will not ride a bike to do their errands or meet friends for dinner or drinks. This is not every woman, but sadly still a significant percentage in our image-obsessed culture. Make cycling more fashion-friendly, or let cycling come in fashion, and they&#039;ll change their tune.

@ danceralamode: The idea that women don&#039;t want to work on their bikes to protect their manicures is outdated, but how many women who drive will change a tire vs call AAA when they get a flat? I&#039;m also carefree, but I might not have made that choice if I expected/worried about showing up for my office job or a date with grease on my hands and a chain mark on my leg. 

For the record, I would have been voted &quot;least girly&quot; amongst my college friends and I went to a liberal feminist women&#039;s college. Don&#039;t wear makeup to get messed up or sweat off, choose my haircut based on what&#039;s easiest to fix when I take off my helmet. I can see where everyone is coming from being offended by the stereotypes some of the survey questions implied, but sadly I have actaully heard those excuses from real people. I don&#039;t think they&#039;re actual standalone reasons why women choose not to ride, but they are legitimate obstacles to some, particularly older generations/more conservative (like the ones who wear pantyhose even in the summer).

The bigger obstacles are still perception of safety/convenience. And as a group women tend to be more risk averse. They are less likely to be the ones leading the charge to take back the streets from thugs/distracted drivers by putting themselves in harm&#039;s way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Herbie Huff: I would agree with you, except that I&#8217;ve met women like that. The women who won&#8217;t go to the grocery store without taking a half hour to do their makeup &amp; hair will not ride a bike to do their errands or meet friends for dinner or drinks. This is not every woman, but sadly still a significant percentage in our image-obsessed culture. Make cycling more fashion-friendly, or let cycling come in fashion, and they&#8217;ll change their tune.</p>
<p>@ danceralamode: The idea that women don&#8217;t want to work on their bikes to protect their manicures is outdated, but how many women who drive will change a tire vs call AAA when they get a flat? I&#8217;m also carefree, but I might not have made that choice if I expected/worried about showing up for my office job or a date with grease on my hands and a chain mark on my leg. </p>
<p>For the record, I would have been voted &#8220;least girly&#8221; amongst my college friends and I went to a liberal feminist women&#8217;s college. Don&#8217;t wear makeup to get messed up or sweat off, choose my haircut based on what&#8217;s easiest to fix when I take off my helmet. I can see where everyone is coming from being offended by the stereotypes some of the survey questions implied, but sadly I have actaully heard those excuses from real people. I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re actual standalone reasons why women choose not to ride, but they are legitimate obstacles to some, particularly older generations/more conservative (like the ones who wear pantyhose even in the summer).</p>
<p>The bigger obstacles are still perception of safety/convenience. And as a group women tend to be more risk averse. They are less likely to be the ones leading the charge to take back the streets from thugs/distracted drivers by putting themselves in harm&#8217;s way.</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Newton</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2881</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2881</guid>
		<description>To follow up a little on what Dancer said, I think the idea of women not wanting to get grease in their hair period is a little outmoded.  When it comes to fixing things around the house, it&#039;s my wife, the engineer, who does all of the work.  Also, whenever I go to one of L.A.&#039;s bike co-ops for some help it&#039;s almost always a woman who&#039;s teaching me how to fix up the bike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To follow up a little on what Dancer said, I think the idea of women not wanting to get grease in their hair period is a little outmoded.  When it comes to fixing things around the house, it&#8217;s my wife, the engineer, who does all of the work.  Also, whenever I go to one of L.A.&#8217;s bike co-ops for some help it&#8217;s almost always a woman who&#8217;s teaching me how to fix up the bike.</p>
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		<title>By: claire_quilty</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2866</link>
		<dc:creator>claire_quilty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2866</guid>
		<description>I made sure to include where possible to not assume women don&#039;t cycle because of superficial reasons. Some of those questions were indeed ridiculous. I&#039;ll bike to work in open toed pumps if I have to and when a problem leaves me tinkering with greasy parts, I&#039;ll even wipe my hands on my clothes. It&#039;s called a washing machine. 

From my experience with women who do not cycle, it&#039;s because of safety and convenience (and by convenience i mean it&#039;s too easy to jump in a car to reach a destination). Safety and convenience are concerns for ALL cyclists. I don&#039;t have my road bike fitted to be a good commuter bike, so when I know it&#039;ll be dangerous to lug purchases from running errands I may borrow a car or take mass transit. If I know the streets to reach a destination are too busy and motorists tend to drive poorly on said streets, I won&#039;t ride my bike. 

I may be simplifying things here, but I feel like if you made cycling safe for everyone, more women would cycle. The answer isn&#039;t in cute feminine accessories, people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made sure to include where possible to not assume women don&#8217;t cycle because of superficial reasons. Some of those questions were indeed ridiculous. I&#8217;ll bike to work in open toed pumps if I have to and when a problem leaves me tinkering with greasy parts, I&#8217;ll even wipe my hands on my clothes. It&#8217;s called a washing machine. </p>
<p>From my experience with women who do not cycle, it&#8217;s because of safety and convenience (and by convenience i mean it&#8217;s too easy to jump in a car to reach a destination). Safety and convenience are concerns for ALL cyclists. I don&#8217;t have my road bike fitted to be a good commuter bike, so when I know it&#8217;ll be dangerous to lug purchases from running errands I may borrow a car or take mass transit. If I know the streets to reach a destination are too busy and motorists tend to drive poorly on said streets, I won&#8217;t ride my bike. </p>
<p>I may be simplifying things here, but I feel like if you made cycling safe for everyone, more women would cycle. The answer isn&#8217;t in cute feminine accessories, people.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2863</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2863</guid>
		<description>The European model includes things we don&#039;t have here:

1. Strict liability for driver who strike cyclists and pedestrian. 
2. Speed limits on city streets of 17.5 mph not 45mph which makes a huge difference in surviving being struck.
3. A much higher cost of obtaining a driver&#039;s license and higher operating costs for the machine once you own it. 

Additionally, we (in the US) assume that bikers means 20-40yo athletic while males who have a extremely high risk tolerance. They &quot;can&quot; ride on the roadways. 

Finally, the cost per trip of buildling seperate bicycle facilities to accomodate all (or even most) motorist will be fairly substantial. 

Just some thoughts,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The European model includes things we don&#8217;t have here:</p>
<p>1. Strict liability for driver who strike cyclists and pedestrian.<br />
2. Speed limits on city streets of 17.5 mph not 45mph which makes a huge difference in surviving being struck.<br />
3. A much higher cost of obtaining a driver&#8217;s license and higher operating costs for the machine once you own it. </p>
<p>Additionally, we (in the US) assume that bikers means 20-40yo athletic while males who have a extremely high risk tolerance. They &#8220;can&#8221; ride on the roadways. </p>
<p>Finally, the cost per trip of buildling seperate bicycle facilities to accomodate all (or even most) motorist will be fairly substantial. </p>
<p>Just some thoughts,</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2860</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2860</guid>
		<description>Just a comment on the survey design: if the goal is to identify policies and practices that affect women cyclists particularly, as opposed to cyclists in general (both men and women), survey respondents need to include both sexes. If you don&#039;t hear what men have to say, it&#039;s likely that the policies and practices that the women identify would be the same ones that men would name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a comment on the survey design: if the goal is to identify policies and practices that affect women cyclists particularly, as opposed to cyclists in general (both men and women), survey respondents need to include both sexes. If you don&#8217;t hear what men have to say, it&#8217;s likely that the policies and practices that the women identify would be the same ones that men would name.</p>
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		<title>By: danceralamode</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2854</link>
		<dc:creator>danceralamode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2854</guid>
		<description>Herbie, 

I second your opinion. I consider myself feminine, but I love repairing my bike. I think the idea that a woman doesn&#039;t work on her bike because she&#039;ll mess up her manicure is extremely outmoded. I agree that many young women want to be able to be as fashionable and chic as they are driving as they are on the bike, but as indicator questions, they seem quite ridiculous. 

I&#039;d love to see more ladies on bikes, and I think maybe less focus needs to be on answering questions about toting children around and more on getting women on bikes in general. I don&#039;t think it has to be a conversation of being car-free but rather car lite. (I, of course, prefer car-free, but that&#039;s me.) It really only takes one successful bike errand to get them to want to do it again, then again, then again. 

Regarding safety: getting more people on bikes and out of their cars is the first step towards taking back our streets from thugs and criminals. If you have to look at the community you live in or near, it changes your perspective. Right now, people jump into their safe 4000lb cages because the streets aren&#039;t safe. But streets aren&#039;t safe because we&#039;ve abandoned them. We need to take them back. Strong communities with good neighbor relationships do not foster crime. It&#039;s been my experience that people who ride bikes are more aware of the other people live in their neighborhoods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herbie, </p>
<p>I second your opinion. I consider myself feminine, but I love repairing my bike. I think the idea that a woman doesn&#8217;t work on her bike because she&#8217;ll mess up her manicure is extremely outmoded. I agree that many young women want to be able to be as fashionable and chic as they are driving as they are on the bike, but as indicator questions, they seem quite ridiculous. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to see more ladies on bikes, and I think maybe less focus needs to be on answering questions about toting children around and more on getting women on bikes in general. I don&#8217;t think it has to be a conversation of being car-free but rather car lite. (I, of course, prefer car-free, but that&#8217;s me.) It really only takes one successful bike errand to get them to want to do it again, then again, then again. </p>
<p>Regarding safety: getting more people on bikes and out of their cars is the first step towards taking back our streets from thugs and criminals. If you have to look at the community you live in or near, it changes your perspective. Right now, people jump into their safe 4000lb cages because the streets aren&#8217;t safe. But streets aren&#8217;t safe because we&#8217;ve abandoned them. We need to take them back. Strong communities with good neighbor relationships do not foster crime. It&#8217;s been my experience that people who ride bikes are more aware of the other people live in their neighborhoods.</p>
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		<title>By: Herbie Huff</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2837</link>
		<dc:creator>Herbie Huff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2837</guid>
		<description>I have to say, I took their survey, and it offended me. So many of the possible responses to the questions had to do with my appearance and grooming! The idea that women are or should be particularly concerned with how they look... it&#039;s so 19th century. For example, one question asks, &quot;What factors influence your cycling decisions?&quot; and the answer options include &quot;I can never get my brakes working right,&quot; &quot;My hands get dirty when I have to do anything with the bike,&quot; and &quot;I don&#039;t like it when oil gets on my clothes from the chain.&quot; Fragile incompetence and ladylike stereotypes, anyone? Later the survey asks a whole question about culture and fashion factors that influence my decision to cycle, and they include &quot;helmets mess up my hair&quot; and &quot;I&#039;m afraid of negative comments about my appearance after cycling.&quot;

If we are going to ask women these ridiculous questions, we better be asking men, too. I can&#039;t wait to see some ridiculous statistic like &quot;10% of women are afraid of negative comments about their appearance after cycling&quot; without knowing how many pretty boys WEREN&#039;T asked.

As a queer genderqueer mofo in a female body, I&#039;m also pretty irritated with the way this whole study reinforces the gender binary. I&#039;m interested in gender gaps when it comes to cycling (like the enormous yawning gender gap observed in LACBC&#039;s bike count), but I do not think that assuming that those gender gaps stem from essential, naturalized differences between &quot;men&quot; and &quot;women&quot; is the answer. That&#039;s essentially what this survey does.

In my opinion, we should be asking these types of questions to all cyclists. We should ask men if they ride with their children, and how riding with children changes their behavior (that&#039;s a shout out to you Josef). We should ask men what their experiences are at bike shops. We should ask men if they are afraid of their bike breaking down. The fact that we only ask these things of women, frankly, offends me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, I took their survey, and it offended me. So many of the possible responses to the questions had to do with my appearance and grooming! The idea that women are or should be particularly concerned with how they look&#8230; it&#8217;s so 19th century. For example, one question asks, &#8220;What factors influence your cycling decisions?&#8221; and the answer options include &#8220;I can never get my brakes working right,&#8221; &#8220;My hands get dirty when I have to do anything with the bike,&#8221; and &#8220;I don&#8217;t like it when oil gets on my clothes from the chain.&#8221; Fragile incompetence and ladylike stereotypes, anyone? Later the survey asks a whole question about culture and fashion factors that influence my decision to cycle, and they include &#8220;helmets mess up my hair&#8221; and &#8220;I&#8217;m afraid of negative comments about my appearance after cycling.&#8221;</p>
<p>If we are going to ask women these ridiculous questions, we better be asking men, too. I can&#8217;t wait to see some ridiculous statistic like &#8220;10% of women are afraid of negative comments about their appearance after cycling&#8221; without knowing how many pretty boys WEREN&#8217;T asked.</p>
<p>As a queer genderqueer mofo in a female body, I&#8217;m also pretty irritated with the way this whole study reinforces the gender binary. I&#8217;m interested in gender gaps when it comes to cycling (like the enormous yawning gender gap observed in LACBC&#8217;s bike count), but I do not think that assuming that those gender gaps stem from essential, naturalized differences between &#8220;men&#8221; and &#8220;women&#8221; is the answer. That&#8217;s essentially what this survey does.</p>
<p>In my opinion, we should be asking these types of questions to all cyclists. We should ask men if they ride with their children, and how riding with children changes their behavior (that&#8217;s a shout out to you Josef). We should ask men what their experiences are at bike shops. We should ask men if they are afraid of their bike breaking down. The fact that we only ask these things of women, frankly, offends me.</p>
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		<title>By: yoshiyahu</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2772</link>
		<dc:creator>yoshiyahu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2772</guid>
		<description>@stacey2545 You make very good points. One of our local Long Beach bike shops, Jax, recently had a &quot;ladies night&quot; ( I think Trek was involved) to focus on women and their particular questions and needs. 

I think more effort should be placed on such events that focus on women and their needs, as well as efforts to reach out to minority communities that may well have their own disincentives to ride.

@Dave in KY -- I have heard our Long Beach Mobility Coordinator, Charlie Gandy, say many times that if you want to increase mode share, get young women on bikes. And I think he&#039;s right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@stacey2545 You make very good points. One of our local Long Beach bike shops, Jax, recently had a &#8220;ladies night&#8221; ( I think Trek was involved) to focus on women and their particular questions and needs. </p>
<p>I think more effort should be placed on such events that focus on women and their needs, as well as efforts to reach out to minority communities that may well have their own disincentives to ride.</p>
<p>@Dave in KY &#8212; I have heard our Long Beach Mobility Coordinator, Charlie Gandy, say many times that if you want to increase mode share, get young women on bikes. And I think he&#8217;s right.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in KY</title>
		<link>http://streetsblog.net/2010/03/19/getting-more-women-on-the-bike/comment-page-1/#comment-2763</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in KY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://streetsblog.net/?p=2539#comment-2763</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t buy this whole line of attack. We already have a good measurement of bikeability: mode share! No need to get inside anyone&#039;s pants.

Duuuuuuuh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t buy this whole line of attack. We already have a good measurement of bikeability: mode share! No need to get inside anyone&#8217;s pants.</p>
<p>Duuuuuuuh!</p>
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